The Great Debate: Android vs WinCE (SatNav+Head Units)
Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:15 am
So, I realized there's no section for this to go in. We don't have a general GPS chat so it's going here.
So, it's now time for the great debate, Android vs WinCE... from a purely Sat Nav and Head Unit perspective. Now, before anyone gets going, answers like "android got more apps, android better OS, yay!!" are totally mundane and stupid, because that isn't the point of what I'm getting at. We need to look at this from the perspective of someone who wants to buy a SatNav Head Unit for their car. Not someone who wants to be able to play Angry Birds. Anyone who wants to play Angry Birds while driving is a total retard. We also need to look at the bigger picture and prioritize the things that are useful in car. So, I'm going to start with some pros and cons of both:
Android
Pros:
Apps- Despite what I said in the intro, it's hard to ignore the fact there are some apps out there that could be useful while driving. TuneIn Pro is one that I think would be very useful, for digital radio especially. No, Angry Birds is not useful...
Customization- Android is easy to customize. You can load new launchers, or even build your own. It wouldn't be hard to make it individual. Rooting China 2Din Android Units is a piece of cake.
Multimedia- It's easy to obtain various multimedia codecs and software, and you can pretty much turn it into a multimedia hub for your car.
Internet Access- Obviously it's hard to ignore all the goodies an Android loaded 3G head unit would bring. Instant access to YouTube and other cool online services.
Sync- It wouldn't be hard to sync your head unit to your phone or PC. Theoretically, you could select somewhere on your PC and navigate it using Google Maps in your car.
Cons:
Cost- Android head units are the most expensive of the China 2Din's around. The hardware is often more powerful than WinCE counterparts, and the general cost to build is higher. Android also takes more adapting to the hardware specification as it's designed for so many different devices.
Ergonomics- There is still an ongoing debate about whether an adapted form of WIMP (Windows, Icons, Menus, Pointers) is the best layout for mobile devices, including head units. Is having WIMP in your car a smart move? Is it really precise enough, small icons etc?
Hardware- While the hardware in Android China 2Din's is higher spec'd than WinCE competitors, it generally pales in comparison to tablets and phones. One device being retailed for £300 online, has a single core 1GHz processor, and only 512mb of RAM. To put that into context, a Samsung Galaxy S1 is faster. Running Android requires much greater processing power than WinCE, and a WinCE device with 600MHz and 128MB will almost certainly appear faster than an Android with 1Ghz processor and 512mb RAM even when browsing.
Software- It really isn't hard to create a ROM for Android, I assure you. Making a ROM for Android that is stable is a totally different matter. There isn't any guarantee that the ROM you are getting supplied with the head unit you buy is even close to stable. It's not hard to find people on the Internet who have bought China tablets, China phones and they're borderline unusable due to the poor ROM supplied with the phone.
Obsoletion- Android is a rapidly growing OS. The pace in which it has grown already is phenomenal, but cracks are starting to appear within it's own environment. People still using Gingerbread 2.3 are finding that new app updates are breaking their phone, yet older versions are becoming unsupported and some are being forced to update. There is little chance of ROM updates for an Android head unit, so the likelihood is within 2 - 3 years, your device will be totally obsolete and many apps will stop working. To add insult to injury, most Android Head Units are still using 2.2, with a few using 2.3 and some now starting to use ICS. That's two versions behind the latest.
Sat Nav Packages- Finally, Android has a fairly small selection of major Sat Nav Packages right now. iGo, Co-Pilot, TomTom (hit and miss) Google Maps and Sygic are available, however there are 100's of tinpot Sat Nav apps that might not really be that good.
WinCE
Pros:
Cost- As expected, it's the first on the list. WinCE tend to be the best value devices around, and you can pick up a fairly functional WinCE tablet sat nav for under £50, and the head units retail at around £100 for the cheapest.
Obsoletion- WinCE 6 is unlikely to be made obsolete by updates any time soon, seeing as Microsoft has finished development for it years ago. Yet, WinCE is still a very commonly used OS for sat nav products around the world. Trust me, if you have WinCE 6, the newest version of iGo Primo will be designed to work on it.
Software- WinCE is a fairly easy OS to adapt to hardware, even for a manufacturer. In most cases, the boards are designed specifically for WinCE and therefore there is little scope for problems and bugs in that respect.
Sat Nav Packages- Most major packages are available for WinCE. There are some smaller Sat Nav packages too.
Cons:
Apps- There are none... well, there are, but don't expect to find TuneIn Radio. Most WinCE apps are functional tools, such as Task Managers etc. Those that are generally outdated and haven't been updated in years (see Opera Browser) I've heard it's possible to port WM6 apps over to WinCE, but I'm yet to be shown how to do that.
Customization- Again, there is none. None whatsoever.
Memory- There are devices coming out of the factory that simply haven't got the memory requirements to run the necessary software. It's not always easy to tell which though.
Interface- Could be good, could be bad, but unfortunately the lack of customization means a bad UI usually results in you being set for the rest of the device lifetime.
Discuss people.
So, it's now time for the great debate, Android vs WinCE... from a purely Sat Nav and Head Unit perspective. Now, before anyone gets going, answers like "android got more apps, android better OS, yay!!" are totally mundane and stupid, because that isn't the point of what I'm getting at. We need to look at this from the perspective of someone who wants to buy a SatNav Head Unit for their car. Not someone who wants to be able to play Angry Birds. Anyone who wants to play Angry Birds while driving is a total retard. We also need to look at the bigger picture and prioritize the things that are useful in car. So, I'm going to start with some pros and cons of both:
Android
Pros:
Apps- Despite what I said in the intro, it's hard to ignore the fact there are some apps out there that could be useful while driving. TuneIn Pro is one that I think would be very useful, for digital radio especially. No, Angry Birds is not useful...
Customization- Android is easy to customize. You can load new launchers, or even build your own. It wouldn't be hard to make it individual. Rooting China 2Din Android Units is a piece of cake.
Multimedia- It's easy to obtain various multimedia codecs and software, and you can pretty much turn it into a multimedia hub for your car.
Internet Access- Obviously it's hard to ignore all the goodies an Android loaded 3G head unit would bring. Instant access to YouTube and other cool online services.
Sync- It wouldn't be hard to sync your head unit to your phone or PC. Theoretically, you could select somewhere on your PC and navigate it using Google Maps in your car.
Cons:
Cost- Android head units are the most expensive of the China 2Din's around. The hardware is often more powerful than WinCE counterparts, and the general cost to build is higher. Android also takes more adapting to the hardware specification as it's designed for so many different devices.
Ergonomics- There is still an ongoing debate about whether an adapted form of WIMP (Windows, Icons, Menus, Pointers) is the best layout for mobile devices, including head units. Is having WIMP in your car a smart move? Is it really precise enough, small icons etc?
Hardware- While the hardware in Android China 2Din's is higher spec'd than WinCE competitors, it generally pales in comparison to tablets and phones. One device being retailed for £300 online, has a single core 1GHz processor, and only 512mb of RAM. To put that into context, a Samsung Galaxy S1 is faster. Running Android requires much greater processing power than WinCE, and a WinCE device with 600MHz and 128MB will almost certainly appear faster than an Android with 1Ghz processor and 512mb RAM even when browsing.
Software- It really isn't hard to create a ROM for Android, I assure you. Making a ROM for Android that is stable is a totally different matter. There isn't any guarantee that the ROM you are getting supplied with the head unit you buy is even close to stable. It's not hard to find people on the Internet who have bought China tablets, China phones and they're borderline unusable due to the poor ROM supplied with the phone.
Obsoletion- Android is a rapidly growing OS. The pace in which it has grown already is phenomenal, but cracks are starting to appear within it's own environment. People still using Gingerbread 2.3 are finding that new app updates are breaking their phone, yet older versions are becoming unsupported and some are being forced to update. There is little chance of ROM updates for an Android head unit, so the likelihood is within 2 - 3 years, your device will be totally obsolete and many apps will stop working. To add insult to injury, most Android Head Units are still using 2.2, with a few using 2.3 and some now starting to use ICS. That's two versions behind the latest.
Sat Nav Packages- Finally, Android has a fairly small selection of major Sat Nav Packages right now. iGo, Co-Pilot, TomTom (hit and miss) Google Maps and Sygic are available, however there are 100's of tinpot Sat Nav apps that might not really be that good.
WinCE
Pros:
Cost- As expected, it's the first on the list. WinCE tend to be the best value devices around, and you can pick up a fairly functional WinCE tablet sat nav for under £50, and the head units retail at around £100 for the cheapest.
Obsoletion- WinCE 6 is unlikely to be made obsolete by updates any time soon, seeing as Microsoft has finished development for it years ago. Yet, WinCE is still a very commonly used OS for sat nav products around the world. Trust me, if you have WinCE 6, the newest version of iGo Primo will be designed to work on it.
Software- WinCE is a fairly easy OS to adapt to hardware, even for a manufacturer. In most cases, the boards are designed specifically for WinCE and therefore there is little scope for problems and bugs in that respect.
Sat Nav Packages- Most major packages are available for WinCE. There are some smaller Sat Nav packages too.
Cons:
Apps- There are none... well, there are, but don't expect to find TuneIn Radio. Most WinCE apps are functional tools, such as Task Managers etc. Those that are generally outdated and haven't been updated in years (see Opera Browser) I've heard it's possible to port WM6 apps over to WinCE, but I'm yet to be shown how to do that.
Customization- Again, there is none. None whatsoever.
Memory- There are devices coming out of the factory that simply haven't got the memory requirements to run the necessary software. It's not always easy to tell which though.
Interface- Could be good, could be bad, but unfortunately the lack of customization means a bad UI usually results in you being set for the rest of the device lifetime.
Discuss people.
Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:00 am
Actually there is a general section, it's called chit-chat, and that's where I moved it to.
However most of what you said is correct, and if I get time I may create a home/launcher environment for android for car use...
However most of what you said is correct, and if I get time I may create a home/launcher environment for android for car use...
Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:37 am
You know what I would like to also see is a discussion of what is "best" - Android or IOS on the phone.
Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:49 pm
There is no debate between CE and Android!
1. CE was designed for embedded systems and never intended as a platform like a normal Windows system.
2. Both CE and CE based hardware is dead! There is no support from MS anymore and there have been no updates for the past 8 years at least.
Since CE is dead anyway Asia can dump all sort of crap running on CE on the market to get rid of old hardware.
And a debate between Android and the rotten Apple is useless as the system are just different in terms of control.
Apple restricts everything as much as possible, where Android is considered to be user friendly.
Android and Apple compete against each other and now against Win8, so it will be up to the user to decide on a winner.
The war is not in any shop but in the app markets and the possibilities in terms of hardware support.
It the same "debate" between Windows and Macintosh - neither user would consider the other system
1. CE was designed for embedded systems and never intended as a platform like a normal Windows system.
2. Both CE and CE based hardware is dead! There is no support from MS anymore and there have been no updates for the past 8 years at least.
Since CE is dead anyway Asia can dump all sort of crap running on CE on the market to get rid of old hardware.
And a debate between Android and the rotten Apple is useless as the system are just different in terms of control.
Apple restricts everything as much as possible, where Android is considered to be user friendly.
Android and Apple compete against each other and now against Win8, so it will be up to the user to decide on a winner.
The war is not in any shop but in the app markets and the possibilities in terms of hardware support.
It the same "debate" between Windows and Macintosh - neither user would consider the other system
Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:03 pm
A car optimized Android launcher would be interesting. It wouldn't be hard to make it easy to access sat nav, speech recognition functions etc, but it would need to use screen real estate effectively. As an Android dev, I'd happily help you with that project if China 2Din Android head units become more popular.Fatboyfun wrote:Actually there is a general section, it's called chit-chat, and that's where I moved it to.
However most of what you said is correct, and if I get time I may create a home/launcher environment for android for car use...
I assume this is a joke chas? This debate has been done to death. There is no good answer. Some people prefer Android some prefer iOS. For Sat Nav, I'd say the best has to be Android, because the iPhone GPS is notoriously poor, but there are plenty of Android devices with excellent GPS capabilities, including the Nexus 4.chas521 wrote:You know what I would like to also see is a discussion of what is "best" - Android or IOS on the phone.
Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:08 pm
While I totally agree with your argument, you've totally missed the point of mine.Downunder35m wrote:There is no debate between CE and Android!
1. CE was designed for embedded systems and never intended as a platform like a normal Windows system.
2. Both CE and CE based hardware is dead! There is no support from MS anymore and there have been no updates for the past 8 years at least.
Since CE is dead anyway Asia can dump all sort of crap running on CE on the market to get rid of old hardware.
And a debate between Android and the rotten Apple is useless as the system are just different in terms of control.
Apple restricts everything as much as possible, where Android is considered to be user friendly.
Android and Apple compete against each other and now against Win8, so it will be up to the user to decide on a winner.
The war is not in any shop but in the app markets and the possibilities in terms of hardware support.
It the same "debate" between Windows and Macintosh - neither user would consider the other system
We're not talking about it from an app perspective... we know that Android has all the apps, we know that Android has all the modern hardware, but we also know that many major manufacturers still use WinCE as their platform for development. Bespoke sat nav units are crap. Look at Clarion, Pioneer, they've relied on WinCE up until a year or two ago. There are continuing app updates for WinCE and while the hardware will quickly become outdated on Android, you can be guaranteed in a few years that WinCE hardware will not be totally outdated.
You cannot compare the two OS's from a tablet user experience and a purely hardware-centric argument. This needs to be from a head unit perspective, and the ability use it, in your car, as a sat nav.
Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:16 pm
Ok, but there are not really many people out there that only want a pure GPS system.
As the bis disaster with bricked devices has shown gadgets like Miopocket are just that: a gadget.
With CE only simple displays are possible as multitouch is not officially supported.
I agree that if it is for simple things CE might still have some value, but there is not much left that will continue to support a dead OS in the future.
From past experience I would say give CE 3years where it is still alive and kicking, after that noone will care about it anymore.
Why would any company waste money for developments the run on a dead OS?
Same story as with XP, noone wanted to switch to Vista and there are still a lot of XP systems out there - but who creates something to still work on it...
Time will tell but I would not bet a cent on a OS that is declared dead
As the bis disaster with bricked devices has shown gadgets like Miopocket are just that: a gadget.
With CE only simple displays are possible as multitouch is not officially supported.
I agree that if it is for simple things CE might still have some value, but there is not much left that will continue to support a dead OS in the future.
From past experience I would say give CE 3years where it is still alive and kicking, after that noone will care about it anymore.
Why would any company waste money for developments the run on a dead OS?
Same story as with XP, noone wanted to switch to Vista and there are still a lot of XP systems out there - but who creates something to still work on it...
Time will tell but I would not bet a cent on a OS that is declared dead
Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:58 pm
But my point is, most Android devices will be thoroughly obsolete in a year or two, maybe 3 if you're lucky.
Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:26 pm
And you really think CE will last longer??
Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:51 pm
Spectrum/Commodore 64
NES/Master system
Amiga/Atari ST
SNES/Mega drive
PlayStation/Xbox
Beatles/Rolling stones
There will always be something to fight in the playground over.
NES/Master system
Amiga/Atari ST
SNES/Mega drive
PlayStation/Xbox
Beatles/Rolling stones
There will always be something to fight in the playground over.
Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:36 am
WinCE will last as long as the development of Sat Nav software for it. As long as companies continue to produce the software it will keep going.Downunder35m wrote:And you really think CE will last longer??
Nobody is creating software for Android 2.2 anymore really... look at it that like.
Tough to judge though.
Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:57 am
It is not about Android 2.2 but the current Android version - TT is downard compatible to 2.2 but developed for the 4.0 and 4.2 versions.
Similar story with other programs, just because they support 2.2 does not mean they are developed for it
If you really think the cE has a future than you will learn the reality in 2 or 3 years
There had been no new developments for GPS software based on CE for quite some years, except you would include bugfixes.
On the other hand every few month you see new versions for GPS software based on Android.
Does that tell you anything??
Similar story with other programs, just because they support 2.2 does not mean they are developed for it
If you really think the cE has a future than you will learn the reality in 2 or 3 years
There had been no new developments for GPS software based on CE for quite some years, except you would include bugfixes.
On the other hand every few month you see new versions for GPS software based on Android.
Does that tell you anything??
Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:16 am
When developing for android you have a target api which is usually the latest version and a minimum api for compatibility with earlier versions.
Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:11 pm
Skezza wrote:I assume this is a joke chas? This debate has been done to death. There is no good answer. Some people prefer Android some prefer iOS. For Sat Nav, I'd say the best has to be Android, because the iPhone GPS is notoriously poor, but there are plenty of Android devices with excellent GPS capabilities, including the Nexus 4.
This is not a joke but a real question. Yes, this has been asked and answered all over the net but NEVER here at Navitotal. A good mod not only gives support but also elicits information by asking questions. Perhaps that's the teacher in me. My personal leaning would be for Android [I have an iPhone 5] for navigation as there seems to be more members going to the Android section rather than the iPhone section here. Plus there seems to be more offered for the Android such as TTS.
Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:29 pm
Yes, but that doesn't mean the software is implicitly backwards compatible. Newer API's are unsupported by older versions, and as software begins to get bigger and bigger, you have to make a decision whether to stop supporting old versions of Android or make a legacy build. That is what happened with Android Cupcake, and Donut. After 2.x, packages either had to be branched or support older code which makes the development somewhat more complex and the software itself bigger and less streamlined/optimized.Fatboyfun wrote:When developing for android you have a target api which is usually the latest version and a minimum api for compatibility with earlier versions.
Agreed, the WinCE developments are mainly bugfixes and map updates, but exactly what do you want your sat nav to do? What does an Android sat nav do that WinCE won't. The only thing that comes to mind is certain satellite imagery.
There is still some argument to buying WinCE for price, then selling up in 3 years to buy an Android model, once they're more powerful. Imagine using a 1Ghz processor, 512mb of RAM, for a big app like Sygic. Not fun.