City Navigator North America 2020.10 UN FID 7898   

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Re: City Navigator North America 2020.10 UN FID 7898

Postby ldeveraux » Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:17 pm

tli wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:Is there a way to install on a Garmin C330? As best I can tell, it doesn't accept SDHC, and is capped at SD 2GB. I can't add the lower 49 maps to the card as it's greater than 2GB. Sorry to noob, but any help would be great!

If I can't install directly, can I edit/remove some maps I won't use from the IMG? Then rename to gmapsupp.img and add to SD card?


One can update the internal maps on the StreetPilot C330 and C340 by using a Command Prompt instruction to execute the Garmin WebUpdater application program.

Use the Garmin MapInstall application program to generate the custom map one wants to transfer, rename it GMAPPROM.img, and then use this command line instruction to transfer it to the USB-connected C330/C340:

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Note that for the command shown above, the WebUpdater program is installed in the default location of C:\GARMIN\WebUpdater, and the map to be transfer is located in the C:\Garmin folder.

This procedure will replace the main map in the GPS internal memory. The C340 has 2GB of memory, so should send a map smaller than 1.6GB(?) only. The C330 has only 1GB memory, so need to generate a smaller map less than 0.6GB(?) via MapInstall. Use MapInstall to select the areas one will use the most, and put those in the internal memory. Then generate another map file (under 2GB) for any additional areas, and put those on an SD card (named: GMAPSUPP.img in the SDcard:\Garmin folder). [https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=UsL6MuMMCM8PpgAhUUCqp7] The C330 cannot hold the entire mapset of CNNANT2020.10 (2.79GB)--too large now--but should be able to fit the lower-49.


Required Applications (note that these may not run properly on current PCs):

MapInstall -
[https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=3291]
[https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=3825]

WebUpdater -
[https://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=999-99999-27]

C330/C340 Drivers -
[https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=591]

Unlocked 'MapSource-Install' version of current maps found in this thread


I definitely have the C330, so I will need to upgrade the internal maps, then put the remainder on the SD. What's the trick to using MapInstall though? I installed it and WebUpdater from those links, but the default install folders (Windows 10) were buried under "Program Files (86)". So when I run Map Install, it finds the device and SD cards if I attach them, but says "No unlocked maps were found for this device." If I've got the entirety of the Lower 49 files, where do I put them so they are recognized? And which files need to go there? I have a bunch of folders that contain rar img files. Would I need to put the gmapprom.img in "C:\Program Files (x86)\Garmin\MapInstall\Maps", because that doesn't find them. Do I need to create C:\Garmin and put the img file in there?
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Re: City Navigator North America 2020.10 UN FID 7898

Postby B1ng0 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:31 pm

@ldeveraux
It's a very long time since I've used an SP c3x0 however to the best of my memory the only map stored in the devices internal memory is the basemap. Those devices do not have an internal files system with files and folder visible when connected to a computer, i.e. they don't have mass storage mode. The detail map is stored on the SD card which can be up to 4GB (gigabytes) in size (again, from my unclear memory) however the device is limited to an img file size of 2GiB (gibibytes) minus 1 Byte. That's a limitation of the FAT16 file system. I think C3x0 can use SDHC formatted in FAT32 but that doesn't increase it's ability to use a larger file size of 4GiB - 1 byte anyway, it's still stuck with the smaller FAT16 limit. Note that the decimal GB is less than GiB which is binary, the first is 1,000,000,000 bytes and the latter is 1,073,741,824 bytes so it makes sense to use a 4GB card because you can get a larger img file onto it (theoretically larger by 147,483,648 bytes which is about 140 MiB (binary megabytes).
Is there a way to install on a Garmin C330? As best I can tell, it doesn't accept SDHC, and is capped at SD 2GB. I can't add the lower 49 maps to the card as it's greater than 2GB. Sorry to noob, but any help would be great!

So, to add a detail map you simply should need to copy a suitable sized img file (under 2 GiB) to a Garmin folder on the SD card named gmapsupp.img (i.e. x:/Garmin/gmapsupp.img). The commasnd line method suggested certainly works for devices such as SP 27x0 which have a similar 'region only' internal memory and no media card slot. Because they store detail maps onboard in region 49 (gmapprom.img, the primary map) and in region 10 (gmapsupp.img the supplementary map) the command line method works with WebUpdater to transfer mapping data. However, if I'm correct in my memory of the layout of SP c3x0, flashing to region 49 will do nothing because i'ts lacking in the c3x0 series. Substitution of 10 for 49 and gmapsupp.img for gmapprom.img in the command would allow you to flash to the SD card inserted in c3x0 but it's pointless if you have a card reader/writer to use. There may be a very tiny region 50 onboard meant for Dealer POI map (gmapoem.img) but it would be limited to only about 1 MB so quite useless for detail map data in practical terms. The basemap in region 3 should not be overwritten with detail mapping or navigation will be compromised and in any case it would be a limited space as well, maybe 5 to 20 MB at best.

If I can't install directly, can I edit/remove some maps I won't use from the IMG? Then rename to gmapsupp.img and add to SD card?

No, you cannot just remove parts from an img file. You must obtain the GMAP folder version (sometimes called PC install or mapsource version) to place on your PC and then you can select parts of the US to send via MapInstall to your device with the SD card in it.
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Re: City Navigator North America 2020.10 UN FID 7898

Postby ldeveraux » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:25 am

B1ng0 wrote:@ldeveraux
It's a very long time since I've used an SP c3x0 however to the best of my memory the only map stored in the devices internal memory is the basemap. Those devices do not have an internal files system with files and folder visible when connected to a computer, i.e. they don't have mass storage mode. The detail map is stored on the SD card which can be up to 4GB (gigabytes) in size (again, from my unclear memory) however the device is limited to an img file size of 2GiB (gibibytes) minus 1 Byte. That's a limitation of the FAT16 file system. I think C3x0 can use SDHC formatted in FAT32 but that doesn't increase it's ability to use a larger file size of 4GiB - 1 byte anyway, it's still stuck with the smaller FAT16 limit. Note that the decimal GB is less than GiB which is binary, the first is 1,000,000,000 bytes and the latter is 1,073,741,824 bytes so it makes sense to use a 4GB card because you can get a larger img file onto it (theoretically larger by 147,483,648 bytes which is about 140 MiB (binary megabytes).
Is there a way to install on a Garmin C330? As best I can tell, it doesn't accept SDHC, and is capped at SD 2GB. I can't add the lower 49 maps to the card as it's greater than 2GB. Sorry to noob, but any help would be great!

So, to add a detail map you simply should need to copy a suitable sized img file (under 2 GiB) to a Garmin folder on the SD card named gmapsupp.img (i.e. x:/Garmin/gmapsupp.img). The commasnd line method suggested certainly works for devices such as SP 27x0 which have a similar 'region only' internal memory and no media card slot. Because they store detail maps onboard in region 49 (gmapprom.img, the primary map) and in region 10 (gmapsupp.img the supplementary map) the command line method works with WebUpdater to transfer mapping data. However, if I'm correct in my memory of the layout of SP c3x0, flashing to region 49 will do nothing because i'ts lacking in the c3x0 series. Substitution of 10 for 49 and gmapsupp.img for gmapprom.img in the command would allow you to flash to the SD card inserted in c3x0 but it's pointless if you have a card reader/writer to use. There may be a very tiny region 50 onboard meant for Dealer POI map (gmapoem.img) but it would be limited to only about 1 MB so quite useless for detail map data in practical terms. The basemap in region 3 should not be overwritten with detail mapping or navigation will be compromised and in any case it would be a limited space as well, maybe 5 to 20 MB at best.

If I can't install directly, can I edit/remove some maps I won't use from the IMG? Then rename to gmapsupp.img and add to SD card?

No, you cannot just remove parts from an img file. You must obtain the GMAP folder version (sometimes called PC install or mapsource version) to place on your PC and then you can select parts of the US to send via MapInstall to your device with the SD card in it.


No, I think you are wrong ;) I was able to open the IMG file in MapSource and create 2 different ~1GB IMG files containing all of the maps in the original. I could flash one to the internal memory with the webupdater command, then place the other on my 2GB SD card. This was a time consuming and indirect method, but seemed to work. I was hoping for a simpler method, but the C330 is a 15 year old device, so no complaints.

Additionally, no matter how I format the SDHC card, it's not recognized by the C330.
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Re: City Navigator North America 2020.10 UN FID 7898

Postby B1ng0 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:51 am

No, i'm not wrong about what i wrote regarding not being able to "remove some maps ...." from the img file. You cannot 'open the IMG file in MapSource' at all. BaseCamp can seen and use img files, even if locked, but cannot 'reduce' them either. You can reverse engineer the img file (to a point) using tools such as GMapTool but it will only create a simple preview map, usable only in MapSource for some tasks but if you then try to use it n MS or MU to re-create a reduced sized img file it will lack essential search functions.

What size is your SDHC card? If it's large, create a partition of no more than 2GiB on it (M$ still uses the original binary factor of 1024, so they (quite correctly imo) refer to it as GB (gigabyte) whereas for around 2 decades the officially-accepted binary name is 'gibibyte' (GiB). Format that partition as FAT16 and leave the balance as unallocated, find the .GMAP folder version to use and send the tiles you need using MU and then it will work properly.
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Re: City Navigator North America 2020.10 UN FID 7898

Postby tli » Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:20 pm

Per Garmin, the StreetPilot C300-series specifically can only use standard SD cards; SDHC cards do not work on the C330. FYI.
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Re: City Navigator North America 2020.10 UN FID 7898

Postby B1ng0 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:48 pm

tli wrote:Per Garmin, the StreetPilot C300-series specifically can only use standard SD cards; SDHC cards do not work on the C330. FYI.

Garmin says a lot of things that aren't true, the above statement is one of many. Another example is they claim that you cannot use an SDXC in the older nuvi devices. It's true you can't use them formatted as exFAT which is the default but you can if you reformat them to FAT32. I have a 64GB card functioning perfectly in a nuvi 1390 right now. I've used an SDHC reformatted as FAT16 with a 2GB partition in an SPc320 years ago. Garmin will also tell you you cannot change the regional basemap stored in region 3 in an old StreetPilot or GPSMap device or in any other 'Garmin mode' model which lacks MSM. That's another 'half-truth' in that certainly the command line method doesn't work for region 3, but you can flash another region's basemap IMG converted to a BIN file and made into an RGN file to use with Updater.exe which I've also done with a SPc3x0. Don't believe everything Garmin says publicly.
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Re: City Navigator North America 2020.10 UN FID 7898

Postby ldeveraux » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:14 pm

B1ng0 wrote:No, i'm not wrong about what i wrote regarding not being able to "remove some maps ...." from the img file. You cannot 'open the IMG file in MapSource' at all. BaseCamp can seen and use img files, even if locked, but cannot 'reduce' them either. You can reverse engineer the img file (to a point) using tools such as GMapTool but it will only create a simple preview map, usable only in MapSource for some tasks but if you then try to use it n MS or MU to re-create a reduced sized img file it will lack essential search functions.

What size is your SDHC card? If it's large, create a partition of no more than 2GiB on it (M$ still uses the original binary factor of 1024, so they (quite correctly imo) refer to it as GB (gigabyte) whereas for around 2 decades the officially-accepted binary name is 'gibibyte' (GiB). Format that partition as FAT16 and leave the balance as unallocated, find the .GMAP folder version to use and send the tiles you need using MU and then it will work properly.


Great. So you've given a lot of useful technical info, I understand all that. My initial question was 1) What to download? and 2) How do I get it on my C330. I found a method that worked for me, or so I thought. I was able to search for a shop and navigate to it, so it appears to work with my method.

So what would I need to download, the complete 2+GB GMAPPROM.IMG? I can't for the life of me figure out where to find a .GMAP folder for this map set.

How would I get it onto my system. Even if I can format my SDHC to multiple ~2GB partitions, the GMAPPROM.IMG is still too large to fit on one, so I would need to split it up? Even the GMAPSUPP.IMG is larger than would fit on a 2GB partition.
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Re: City Navigator North America 2020.10 UN FID 7898

Postby B1ng0 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:40 pm

ldeveraux wrote:Great. So you've given a lot of useful technical info, I understand all that. My initial question was 1) What to download? and 2) How do I get it on my C330. I found a method that worked for me, or so I thought. I was able to search for a shop and navigate to it, so it appears to work with my method.

If you've flashed an IMG file smaller than 1GB successfully to your c330's internal memory and it works then you don't need to do anything else. Provided that file and the one you put on your SD card haven't been generated from a reverse-engineed IMG file there's no problem.

So what would I need to download, the complete 2+GB GMAPPROM.IMG? I can't for the life of me figure out where to find a .GMAP folder for this map set.

Yes you must find the .GMAP folder to install to your PC. It's often referred to as a "PC Install Version" or "Map Source Version". It seems not to be available on this forum so you'll need to look around elsewhere unless someone is prepared to post it here for you. That way to can use MapInstall to select only the map tiles you need. As I've said, you cannot reduce an IMG file's size other than by firstly reverse-engineering it and that loses search function.

How would I get it onto my system.

When you find the .GMAP folder, place it in C:\ProgramData\Garmin\Maps\ (note that ProgramData is a hidden folder by default in Windows, so you'll need to unhide it in File Explorer Options).

Even if I can format my SDHC to multiple ~2GB partitions, the GMAPPROM.IMG is still too large to fit on one, so I would need to split it up? Even the GMAPSUPP.IMG is larger than would fit on a 2GB partition.


I don't think you've quite got it straight yet. You cannot use multiple partitions, as only the first partition can be recognized. So create a single 2GiB partition and leave the rest of the space unallocated. Format the partition as FAT16 and use only a third party reliable tool such as RMPrepUSB to be sure it's done correctly. It's free, just search for it.

PS: I checked and my unclear recollection about lack of onboard memory doesn't apply to the higher models in the c3x0 series. Your c330 has ~1GB (about 0.93 GiB binary) and c340 has double that. My c320 can only use detail maps on an SD card.
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Re: City Navigator NE & SW 2020.10 UN FID 7898

Postby GarminNuvi » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:26 am

City Navigator NE 2020.10 UN (1.2Gb)
Image


City Navigator SW 2020.10 UN (1.2Gb)
Image

Image
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Re: City Navigator North America 2020.10 UN FID 7898

Postby ldeveraux » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:34 pm

GarmanNuvi wrote:City Navigator NE 2020.10 UN (1.2Gb)
Image
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City Navigator SW 2020.10 UN (1.2Gb)
Image
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Image
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This is sweet, but the IMG size is still too large (>1GB) to flash to the internal memory. If they were GMAP folders, I suppose I could edit, but not...
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Re: MapSource Version of CNNANT2020.10

Postby tli » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:49 pm

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Re: City Navigator North America 2020.10 UN FID 7898

Postby GarminNuvi » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:56 pm

ldeveraux wrote:Is there a way to install on a Garmin C330? As best I can tell, it doesn't accept SDHC, and is capped at SD 2GB. I can't add the lower 49 maps to the card as it's greater than 2GB. Sorry to noob, but any help would be great!

If I can't install directly, can I edit/remove some maps I won't use from the IMG? Then rename to gmapsupp.img and add to SD card?


You said you have a 2GB SD card. IMO that's the simplest option,no need to learn Mapsource tricks and operation.

If you want a map less the 1GB say what area you want cover ,what states ?? and someone will make you one. :usa:
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Re: City Navigator North America 2020.10 UN FID 7898

Postby ldeveraux » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:40 pm

GarmanNuvi wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:Is there a way to install on a Garmin C330? As best I can tell, it doesn't accept SDHC, and is capped at SD 2GB. I can't add the lower 49 maps to the card as it's greater than 2GB. Sorry to noob, but any help would be great!

If I can't install directly, can I edit/remove some maps I won't use from the IMG? Then rename to gmapsupp.img and add to SD card?


ideverraux said he/she has a 2GB SD card. IMO that's the simplest option,no need to learn Mapsource tricks and operation.

If you want a map less the 1GB say what area you want cover ,what states ?? and someone will make you one. :usa:


I'd like to be able to do it myself in the future, not rely on anyone to make me maps :) But regardless, I'd like a <1GB gmapprom.img that I can webupdate to the internal of the C330. I live in the Northeast, so that should consist of the NE US. Then the remaining <2GB in a gmapsupp.img that I can put on my 2GB SD card.
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Re: City Navigator North America 2020.10 UN FID 7898

Postby GarminNuvi » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:50 pm

ldeveraux wrote:I'd like to be able to do it myself in the future, not rely on anyone to make me maps :) But regardless, I'd like a <1GB gmapprom.img that I can webupdate to the internal of the C330. I live in the Northeast, so that should consist of the NE US. Then the remaining <2GB in a gmapsupp.img that I can put on my 2GB SD card.


Gmap folder with unlock City Navigator North America NT 2020.10
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Re: City Navigator North America 2020.10 UN FID 7898

Postby ldeveraux » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:14 pm

GarmanNuvi wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:I'd like to be able to do it myself in the future, not rely on anyone to make me maps :) But regardless, I'd like a <1GB gmapprom.img that I can webupdate to the internal of the C330. I live in the Northeast, so that should consist of the NE US. Then the remaining <2GB in a gmapsupp.img that I can put on my 2GB SD card.


Gmap folder with unlock City Navigator North America NT 2020.10
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Created with Mapsource UN
L49 NE (912MB) for device
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L49 SW + Florida (1.35GB) for SD card
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This was absolutely perfect! I added the img files where appropriate, and I learned how to create my own with MapSource. Thanks for all the help!
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